Well that is why I posted this chart. All we need is more dates and we can all see the results. As I said I don't expect any system to predict the exact date. As long as a 'turn' date in the market was reasonably close it would have value. My only observation was the distance between the dates was 9 months. That is the 273 days apart(more or less) that he is referring to I suppose. I pointed out in my last post that looking backwards 9 months before the Dec/8/08 low would have been March/08 and there was a minor low there. I wondered if that was also a date. But it would be nice to keep track of it for reference. Just a bunch of numbers isn't going to help the average trader plan a possible trade around it. And stating a Grain market is at a top or bottom without a chart of some type would only frustrate the average trader when it can be out by a week or so and then stop a trader out. With a chart I know if I was going to use it for a trade I'd wait for a couple of weeks for some price confirmation before taking a position rather than jumping in on an exact day and possibly having a draw down for weeks.